Let's Talk About OMM Research! Episode 3: Journal Club


Good morning, everyone! We're glad  to have you with us this morning   for our third episode of the Let's  Talk about OMM Research! series. Today's episode is is a journal club. It's our  first journal club uh uh episode, uh session,   however we want to word it. And uh so um I hope you  all had the opportunity to to read the article. And   uh so uh our presenter will be Dr Brian  Degenhardt. And after he presents... we'll ...  the article, uh we're we're going to  have hopefully a lively discussion about   about the article and what it said. And and  uh uh so I am going to share my screen now. So um just some quick uh business. So as I said, this is our research journal club  uh program today. We will have a discussion   forum available on the website um as soon  as I can get that posted when we're done.  uh so um For for those of you who  are uh um requesting CME credits uh   we have these learning objectives for the  entire Let's Talk about OMM Research! series.  uh So if you want to get your continuing  education credits you have to complete three steps.  uh The first is that you must in the Zoom chat uh  put your first and last name so that we can verify   that you're here. uh You will receive a physician  attestation form and you will receive a evaluation   survey. And despite the fact that this says the  instructions were sent to the email you provided,   they haven't been sent yet. So I will  send that as soon as the meeting is done.   Just about the program, it's accredited by  the uh American Osteopathic Association...   ATSU is accredited by the American  Osteopathic Association. Disclosure policies... We will disclose any conflicts of interest. And each presenter will do so as well. And the steering committee  has no conflicts of interest. If you have any questions uh about the continuing  education, you're welcome to to contact me about   this particular program. uh And if you have  any questions about the continuing education   in general, uh you can contact  Jan Baum at A.

T. Still University. So without further ado, I'm going to turn the time  over to Brian Degenhardt   who's going to talk about "Short-term  Effect"... the article "Short-term Effect   of Osteopathic Manual Techniques  on Respiratory Function in Healthy Individuals". Brian, you're muted. Tt wouldn't be a Zoom  session if someone wasn't muted on the panel. Okay, how about now? Much better!  Perfect okay very good one more ...  turn that off okay. So once again, good morning!  And I want to welcome everybody to our first   journal club. One of the important parts of  this journal club, because we're not sure how many people have had a chance to  participate in a journal club before, is to   help everybody understand the process of doing  a journal club because we're hoping that our   future journal clubs are going to be run by by  everybody who's on the program this morning and   those that will be joining us in the future. uh  We'll have the opportunity for people to sign up   uh for uh future uh uh to present for future  journal clubs. uh That's part of how we want   certainly our our network to continue to develop  its skill set. We'll go on to the next slide. Okay All right so I I don't have anything um   to disclose uh in regards to um conflicts of  interest with with this presentation this morning.   Okay so um we're gonna go back a slide to uh um  there we go okay. So um the purpose of a journal   club, there are three. First is to teach and to  develop critical appraisal skills and that's   for all of us. And it's something that is not just  occurs at any particular time during one's career.   This is something that's just an ongoing process  and a journal club is really helpful in developing   and improving our critical appraisal skills. It is,  also the journal club is to increase our exposure   to a rapidly evolving medical literature. The  amount of of literature that is uh being um   disseminated now is is beyond comprehension. And  for us to to stay on top of all of that, it's just   not realistic.

And certainly we're not  expecting that this journal club is going to   make a significant impact on that because in the  end we are only going to be having about four of   these journal clubs a year. But this does uh help  us to to highlight some of the most important   articles that are coming up coming out that are  most relevant for the work that we are doing.   And then once again uh help us to get a greater  understanding of of how that research was done,   to be able to critically appraise it. And then from  that information uh develop more informed clinical   practice. Since that's really our primary function  uh as in our our careers and our involvement   in the practice-based research work research  network that we have is our clinical practice.  Okay so journal clubs are designed to help  facilitate better knowledge and literature   awareness through group discussion with peers. And  so our discussion is going to be really important.   So uh feel free to uh unmute or or to post  something in the chat if you have a question   as the discussion or as a presentation  uh occurs. All right go to the next slide. So as the presenter, my goal, and for those  that will become presenters in the future,   our goal will be to communicate the  essential information about the study   in a concise, mostly standardized format that is  easily digested by the listener. So that is what I   hope will be able to be accomplished this morning.  And the citation on the bottom of this slide is a   really good summary of how a journal club should  be performed. Okay we'll move to the next slide. So the format for the journal club... So first is to describe what attracted you to the  paper. uh Every person who's the presenter has the   um the luxury of of determining which paper  they are going to present. You want to then explain   how you came across the article. So what was your  your your search method to find it because that   will also help us develop our skills as a group  to be able to find relevant literature.

Then it   is looking at what type of question was asked, the  type of study that was done, and where it was done. And then to state the research question  and why you feel that it was important. We'll then look at a brief background and then  details on the patients, the intervention, the   comparison, and the outcomes. And that's the  mnemonic of PICO is a very commonly one used   in the development of grants, making sure that  a grant is is uh well constructed. It's also   very important in in manuscripts. And then in  the present presentation of the manuscripts   in a journal club. After presenting the PICO,  then we look at summarizing the primary results.   It doesn't necessarily require all of the results  to be presented; primarily those that are are   relevant in answering the research question and  that seem most relevant to you as as the presenter.   Then um you will then evaluate  the article for its basic validity.   uh And then make have discussion  on whether or not the results   uh can be applied uh to our patients within  our clinical practice. So that's the overall um   process that a journal club is designed to do.  And so I'm going to go ahead and begin to present   this week's journal. Is this a time to address  any questions? Are there any questions about   the overall purpose and the presentation  of a journal club before we head into this?   Okay very good thank you Geof. All right so um  I um ended up choosing this article from uh   PLOS, the "Short-term Effects of Osteopathic  Manual Techniques on Respiratory uh Function   in Healthy Individuals". These researchers  come out of Poland. They are DO/PT's there.   And going on to the next slide... So why did I choose  this study? First of all it was uh just recently   published. uh It was it also was hopefully was  easily accessible. I think that's one thing that's   really important for for future presenters to  make sure that when you choose a study that   it's something that everybody can get access to  online.

So to have open access article is important. It's a uh this study was a very common  format for uh osteopathic research,   uh applying a technique or a series of  techniques to a a particular population to   see if that technique had any particular  results. And I can say that this is also   in an area of my personal interest. I've certainly  published with collaborators in the area of   pulmonary function tests and this is an area of  work that we're going to be uh expanding at   A.T. Still Research Institute as well. So that's  why I ended up choosing choosing this study. Okay so why is this study significant? Well  certainly everybody knows that breathing is   the the most vital biological function of the body.  When we stop breathing for a very short time there   are significant consequences. So so to be able to  breathe and to optimize breathing is important. uh   It is the sixth uh holds the sixth place among  the most common causes of death in the world.   These are the various diseases that influence  our ability to breathe. And it is expected by   2030 that that will be the the third uh highest  cause common cause of death. uh There are many   uh types of symptoms that are also associated  with pulmonary diseases. And those not only   include shortness of breath and coughing but also  exhaustion pain uh depression and anxiety. And and   so these are things that are commonly presented  by the patients by the clients that we see in our   office. And so once again it's it's it's really a  relevant area for us to look at. Now um we can look   at just uh outside of what they reviewed in in  that effective a therapy and a respiratory system   clearly has global significance. As we're dealing  with the the current pandemic and as a respiratory   generally a respiratory system disease, effective  therapy is certainly obviously critical.

And effective therapy on the respiratory system  has really been key to osteopathic history. uh   Early on in in the profession in 1918  the whole flu pandemic at that time   in the use of OMT to treat those  patients really for a century became   a focal point for demonstrating how the use  of the hands can influence the physiology of   an organ system. And so once again I think  all of these reasons are are why this   particular study is important for us to look  at today. So what was their research question? The research question was to assess the influence  of osteopathic techniques on breathing. And so   in some respects it it wasn't a question it was  you know more of an observatory uh type of of a   purpose for their study. um When when you're using  doing research it's often really important to   evaluate to have hypotheses as part of  your study. So that was one thing I did   not see in this particular article.  If you want to go ahead and forward... there you go. um And and they certainly very  easily could have made a statement that   if the use of osteopathic  techniques would improve um spirometric uh parameters and be specific  regarding what those parameters were. They didn't   also have a very thorough review of the literature.  They missed several osteopathic studies that used   pulmonary function tests, spirometric measurements,  as outcome indicators for for OMT. And so we   certainly uh when we are disseminating our work  we we want to make sure we are certainly um   acknowledging the work that has been done before  and how that is how you are building upon that   in this current study. And then lastly there was  no consideration of the osteopathic manipulative   therapy model with pulmonary physiology. So in  addition to the hypothesis, which was missing which   was kind of um um implied that the use of OMT was  going to improve these various outcome measures,   that should then be followed by some type of  physiologic rationale for that that you're really   testing.

And so those were some limitations in  this study's uh outline of their research question. Okay so next we're going to look at  at the PICO, looking at the population,   the interventions, uh outcomes, and so  forth. And so they had 30 healthy adult volunteers uh equal number male and  females uh from the age of 48, sorry   18 to um i believe it was 48. Sorry that that's  missing on this slide. 15 individuals were randomly   assigned to an experimental group and 15 to the  placebo group. So the the experimental group had   experienced three types of techniques. One  were thoracic thrust techniques which were   manipulations focused to the vertebral joints  and ribs. The next technique was a sternal   pump technique. And then lastly was a technique  involving the stretching of the diaphragm. So   that was the experimental control group, experimental group. The control group,   they had their patients uh their their volunteers  lying supine um and they performed soft tissue   uh to the masseter muscle, to the the cheeks of  the face. And they gave um a rationale to the   volunteers in that group so that there  was uh some you know potential uh   placebo impact that could help  to maybe augment the outcomes. So   in the end they chose a population that  were healthy, that were asymptomatic, and... But there was really no indication regarding  somatic dysfunction and I think in general there   could be an assumption that uh based off of the  healthy population that we would have considered   that the level of somatic dysfunction uh with  whatever was present would would be subclinical   and not very important. Okay so we'll go on to the  next slide and look at then spirometry. So what   we're going to do is, I'm not sure how many people  have seen spirometry. So we're going to see we   have a very short video just so you can all make  sure that you understand what that's all about. Joan today we're going to assess how your lungs  are working.

To do that test we'll be using this   equipment called a spirometer. What we're going to  measure is how much air you can blow out and how   fast you can blow it out. So I'll be encouraging  you to do some very big breaths in and out today.   To do the test sometimes it can make you feel a  bit dizzy or light-headed so we'll be doing it   sitting down in the chair with your back nice  and straight and your feet flat on the ground.   We'll also be using a nose peg on your nose and  that will just ensure that all the air is coming   out through your mouth to be measured. I'll get you to  hold this mouthpiece there. You'll have when you   place it in your mouth, you put the teeth and the  lips over the end a good firm seal with your lips.   So I'll ask you to have a really big breath in,  pop the mouthpiece in, and then blow out with all   your might as hard and fast as you possibly can  for as long as you can. Then I'll ask you still   with the mouthpiece in to have a big breath in. I  have criteria that I have to meet to ensure that   we're going to get accurate results. So we'll need  to do at least three blows. And as long as I've got   two blows that are repeatable or consistent with  each other, we'll be able to accept those results.   Now before I start I need to ask  you if you had any of your puffers   today. No, that's great. We can  do go ahead and do the test.   If you had had that we just need to make  a note of the time that you last took it.   So Joan we just need to pop this nose peg on  your nose. A bit uncomfortable. You're right there? Good. And if you just hold the mouthpiece there.  And when you're ready I want you to have  the biggest breath in you possibly can.   And mouthpiece in and go, push push push push  push, keep going keep going keep going keep   going, That's fantastic. All the way, all the  way, biggest breath in. And relax. Well done.   Good effort. That's looking good thank  you. So we need to do another breath now.

.. Okay so you can see that it was it's a very simple   piece of equipment. It's something that can  very easily be done in a clinical setting. um So   uh it has you know relevance for for a  practice-based research network to uh to be aware   of the spirometry. um So as we saw in the video  spirometry is used to measure how much air that   you can inhale, how much you can exhale, and how  quickly you can exhale that hair... air. And so it   generates a variety of outcome measures and one  is called the force forced expiratory volume. So   the FEC is is pretty much how much air can you  push out uh over a certain period of time. And so   that can be done at different periods. So that  the force expiratory volume subscript one, which   is our our second measure there, is how much air  the person was able to push out within one second.   And there's FEV2 and 3. So it can be done  at different time frames looking at the forced   expiratory volume over time. When we have  the person as we saw in the video completely   blow out all the air that they have in their  lungs, that's the forced vital capacity or FVC. The peak expiratory flow that means  that's the fastest you can blow air out   in that whole cycle of of of expiration.  Generally that occurs within the first   200 milliseconds so very early on as we push  that air out. That's where that peak expiratory   flow is measured. And we'll... that's one of  the measurements that's critical in our our   article today so I'll make sure  that people understand that.   And then lastly is the total lung capacity, how  much air is in the lungs. And that's we get that   information in that very big deep inhalation  that the patient did at the end of the video. Okay so here is is what the data will look like um   that this spirometer will produce. And so the  blue line here is is the the amount of uh volume   in liters of air that has been blown out over time  and so that's what the line shows. And in a healthy   normal patient which is what we are working  with within this study we see a very sharp um increase or a large amount of volume going  out of the lungs very early on, where we see   the the peak expiratory flow being measured.

We  see the uh forced expiratory volume at one second.   And then we can see that it begins to it peaks  out around two to three seconds and it remains   kind of stable out to a six second time frame. When  doing spirometry we really want to paste a person   to blow out at least six seconds to have a good uh  valid test. In this other graph we're looking at a   person with obstructive lung disease. So this could  have been a smoker over the... And this is how their   spirometry measurements have changed. We can say  that the airflow is significantly slowed down,   that by the that there's not a very rapid  explosion of air coming out uh that would be   part of the their peak expiratory flow. We see that  within one second of time their forced expiratory   volume is significantly reduced from four liters  down to un less than two liters. And so this is   how we're seeing that the air is not coming  out as easily or as smoothly as possible so   there's obstruction within that pulmonary system.  So this is what spirometry allows us to to see. So   in their um study design actually I I misspoke earlier. I said that they had   equal number of males and females. No, in  this particular study they only had healthy women   as part of their study design. So you can see  all of the things that they ruled out to make   sure that these volunteers were um were healthy,  that they had no no pulmonary problems whatsoever. Okay. Okay. So what was their protocol. So as I  mentioned earlier there were three uh parts   to their protocol. One was spinal uh thoracic  thrust of of which um I felt uh was really poorly   described. And in the modern world even though  uh a lot of people might know what that is just   because of their training, in the world of science  there are a lot of fields that are going to be   interested in in the outcomes that we have and so  we have to be descriptive of what is being done.

In their methods section there was no description  of where it was being done, just that it was to the   in the thoracic area. In their discussion they  did have one sentence that indicated that it   was focused from T1 to T5 only. But it didn't  say whether they did every single vertebral   level, whether it was just based off of what they  localized as being dysfunctional segments, and that   would also then be true for uh rib angles because  they they did say that this was kind of trying to   address both intervertebral dysfunctions as well  as effects of ribs uh into the articulations with   the uh thoracic vertebra. With the sternal  thrust I found this interesting because this   is certainly not a a technique that is commonly  um taught within the American osteopathic system.   Here they had a patient that was supine. The  patient... the clinician step stood above them with   their hands overlapped directly on the sternum. So  more like doing CPR versus when we do thoracic or   pumps in the United States it's really more out on  the ribs themselves not on the sternum. And so they   applied force on the sternum. It was unclear what  level of force that they were applying. uh And they   applied that force during exhalation, so basically  trying to augment um the the air going out of the   lungs through the pressure on the sternum. They  performed it five times and at the last two times   they did it they uh did recoil. So I'm not sure  they didn't really describe what recoil meant.   I'm assuming that means that as a person breathed  in they they removed their hands that allowed for   a certain amount of recoil from inhalation.  But I uh that is only assumption on my part.   The last technique technique they did was a  diaphragmatic stretch. And here they placed   their hands um underneath the lower part  of the costal borders of the ribcage.

And with inhalation they augmented the mo...  movement of the ribs and then with exhalation they   they inhibit or stopped rib motion during  exhalation. So there was definitely building   up a tension in that lower ribcage and diaphragm  in hoping to produce some type of therapeutic   effect. And that was repeated several times  at different points along that thoracic   uh or rib border. So that was the the  uh intervention um their OMT protocol.  For the control group they had the patients  supine. They identified the masseter muscle.   And while the therapist the clinician was  at the head of the table they performed   rubbing techniques along that the masseter  muscle, both longitudinal and and friction directions along the masseter, until tenderness  and local spasm was decreased. And I thought that   was kind of interesting because um first of all as  I do it on myself there's no tenderness or spasm   present. And if these are our healthy normals as  they screened in their in their uh um recruitment   then having tenderness and local spasm would not  have from my perspective had been expected. So   how could they have determined that as a time for  stopping that particular aspect of their protocol.  Okay. So on to the outcome measure. As a they  first did a basic spirometry as we had just seen   to evaluate um the the  various spirometric measures.  They had uh three tests done uh they rep... so  that they were uh repeated repeatable uh uh   to make sure that they were valid uh assessment.  And then this participant's best single um trial   those measurements were the  ones that were used for analysis.   So here are the results. In Table 1 this is  looking at the baseline measurements. And   in here we can see that there were no  differences in the forced uh vital capacity,   the forced expiratory volume at one second, or the  peak expiratory flow. These were the three measures   that they uh reported in their study.

And we can  see uh looking at experimental and placebo groups   that the the p values were 0.18 or higher. The  positive expiratory flow is the one that was   certainly lowest. The other two were  around a point p value of 0.5 or better.  Now if we then look at Table 2 which looks at  the comparing before and after within group. So   looking at the OMT group before versus after and  the placebo group before and after. We see that in   first of all we'll talk about the placebo group  first. We can see that there were no statistical   significance between them. There was certainly  a bit of a change with the uh forced expiratory   volume uh one but once again not close to a .05 level whatsoever. So everything would   would indicate that there were no changes as a  result of the placebo intervention. When we look at   the experimental group we can see that the forced  vital capacity was at a .0... .07   which does not meet the criteria for  statistical significance. um um We see   with the forced expiratory volume at one  second that that was a 0.14. And then for the peak expiratory flow a highly  significant change between   baseline and the post manipulative therapy. When we move then to the third  table where they're comparing the um   placebo versus the experimental group um  here we can see that there was no change   uh between those groups uh after the intervention.  And so that that is kind of um interesting and may   may seem kind of confusing how you can  have you know no differences at baseline,   you see differences occurring before  and after treatment within a group,   but then afterwards you don't see any difference  between the groups as well. And so Jane   Johnson produced our next slide to help  us understand what's going on here con... statistically. So here when we we um... The this is called a box plot and uh with the box  plot the majority of of the data falls within the   box and the line goes out to you know the the  the least and the greatest, the maximum value   for that particular area.

And and so here we're  looking purely at the um a peak expiratory flow   measurement where they saw the statistical  significance. And we can see within the   experimental group that before treatment and after  treatment there was the statistical significance. But we can see that there's  significant overlap between the data   within that group from before versus after the OMT.   When we look at before versus after in the  placebo group we see that there's really you know   no uh change in the box plot whatsoever. And when  we look at the uh after boxes for the experimental   versus the placebo group once again they they look  very very similar some slight changes regarding   the median and the minimum value.  But once again we're seeing really   very little change going on between the placebo  group and the experimental group although they did   report a statistically significant change  in the peak expiratory flow measurement. So their one of their conclusions was  um or their purpose was to obtain a   significant positive effect, a combination of  manipulative techniques such as manipulations   of the intervertebral joints and costo vertebral  joints combined with soft tissue techniques   that included a diaphragm stretch, releasing  myofascial of the cervical and thoracic regions,   and a sternal thump pump or visceral  manipulation should be used. And so   this was their conclusion based off of the data  that we just saw. And I think that this is really   significantly exceeding the both the research  question, the design, as well as the results that   are associated uh with this article. And we  will engage this in discussion in a moment.  And so what what are the limitations that I've  identified and and certainly some of these they   identified as well. So first of all a major  limitation is that there was no proposed mechanism   up front as to why they would think that the peak  expiratory flow would be expected.

They had no   proposed mechanisms for how changing uh ribcage  biomechanics would impact change, whether it's just   due to these the somatic system or  through a neurogenic regulatory changes   uh associated with uh autonomic uh factors that we  typically attribute to these types of techniques.   Another limitation, and I think we will need to  discuss this, is that they only used um they only   they chose to only use normal healthy adults and  they did not report any examination of somatic   dysfunction to determine or to demonstrate  whether the techniques that were performed   were relevant for those particular patients.  And so once again I think when we talk about   osteopathic manipulative treatment  versus osteopathic manipulative   therapy, one being more potentially a recipe driven  protocol versus one that is specific for patient   findings, I think this may be a factor that that  brings out limitations for this particular study.   They recommended that in the future  that they wanted a larger population   but one of the advantages of this particular  study is that they there is now data that could   allow us to do some power analysis for these  particular outcome measures. So so it is the   outcome is beneficial for future research. uh They  wanted better definition of overall the cohort   and and sub cohorts. um I think um as I mentioned  better establishment of hypotheses uh that uh   hopefully maybe with the study they they might  be able to develop a better definition of the   techniques. And um I think one thing that often we  neglect within osteopathic research is to bring in   somebody that is a content expert within the the  measure, within the instrumentation that are being   used, or within the field of the physiologic  parameter that's being done. And so here   having somebody that was a pulmonologist somebody  that has expertise with spirometry would have   been very helpful to guide the methodology  and interpretation for this particular study.

So from their conclusion that they said that  there was an uh indicated that peak expiratory   flow may be considered a reliable marker for  measuring the effects of osteopathic manipulative   treatments targeting the respiratory system. From  the review that we did, I'm hoping that you would   would be critical of that particular  conclusion. First of all this is not a study of   of reliability uh the um and that the results  were really really quite slim to determine um   uh changes uh before and after treatment. So I  think that conclusion is not very supported by   by the outcomes. From my perspective this was  not a study of reliability but to demonstrate   that a test may be sensitive enough to identify  biomechanical changes of the ribcage and or the   neurologic or neurogenic regulatory changes of  lung physiology that could be secondary to OMT.   So that is my presentation of of our  first uh article for the for DO-Touch.NET's   journal club. I'd like to now open up a time  for discussion. And these are some evidence-based   references that you can look at as well for uh  further review. You do have uh two questions right   now in the Q&A pod here we've got. To which of the  five columns of outcomes do the p values refer? Okay um so I think we um go back to one of the  tables. I'm assuming that's in regards to the table.   um I can just answer that if you'd like.  Okay please do. They refer to the median,   so comparing the medians, uh whether the  uh whether the medians were different.   um The the within group comparisons look  at the median change from pre to post.  The between group comparisons just  compares the two groups on the median. Okay and we've got another question here.  They say that included they included 30   male and females whereas later the exclusion  criteria they explicitly excluded males. Did   they not find any male participants  or did they only find unhealthy men. No this is a sign of an incompetent presenter.

Uh I I I was incorrect in that earlier slide   that talked about uh men. It was... this study was  designed for only females and so that was my um...   I am I am just um... In in study designs in general  if you're only going to focus on a particular   uh component of the population, you need to have a  good rationale. It's important to have a rationale   for why you're excluding people uh and so I just  made an assumption that they they they used both   uh both sexes and it was uh so that I I never  changed that that earlier slide so my apologies. But it does say in the abstract that  they had 30 healthy males and females.  Well thank you! I knew there had to have been a  better reason. I'm going to accept the outright you know...   bit for that but it was not addressed in  the article about men. They just talked   about the exclusion criteria and men  being one of the exclusion criteria...   male. Okay and we have uh Markus here  with his hand up. Let me pop... there you go. Hi, hello! Yeah that's that's just what I wanted  to say that you did not do anything wrong. It   says it right here so thanks Jane for for  cleaning it up. But while I'm unmuted um...   Do you... what what would you  think like isn't it usually... isn't that a peer-reviewed uh journal where they  published? Shouldn't like different people pick   up the things you just mentioned and keep them  from publishing um not because they are generally   bad people or this is generally bad research but  maybe this is questionable research or does not   contribute any value to our um profession. So so  so i don't know maybe this is a little bit of   off topic but maybe you can shed some light on on  how this process usually works. Because it really   like I read this for I think five or ten minutes  and immediately took up my phone and and wrote   to Jane. Because I thought like did am I doing  something wrong because I think this article,   and I don't I mean no offense to the  authors, but it doesn't seem really good.

Yeah thank you and um for bringing that  up. This wasn't my initial choice. um I I  was going to the one that I had originally  thought of was one that um I know would have   been very much a premier article. um But a lot  of times our our work gets into you know uh   lower level peer-reviewed journals. And right  now there are so many places where peer-reviewed   journals exist but they are really you know  part of a a you know a way of of uh making money.   And so the the review process is not  as stringent as what is really um   uh driven by the scientific community versus just  a publication you know this uh dispersal community.   um So so as we choose our articles in the future  this is an important point that we need to look   at. One, we have to be able to have access to it  and and there are many highly regarded rigorous periodicals that have that we can choose from.   But once again if if you see something from  the very beginning that says wow the reviewers   didn't obviously review it quite well, that's  just an indication that that's a level of of a   peer-reviewed process that really we should  probably avoid in in our our work here. Thank you. Okay so we have um another question  here. uh More of an observation. This was going   to be underpowered from the get-go osteopathic  intervention in an asymptomatic population   would be anticipated to show limited changes. Yeah, so this is an issue I'm going  to let Jane talk cause she has   she has seen many studies through her 20-plus  year career um as a as a a statistician and   methodologist within this field. So uh we have  already talked about it but I'm gonna let Jane   address that. So so I told Brian in in my uh  professional medical opinion as a statistician, it is curious to me there seems to be a lot of   of research done on healthy populations  in the osteopathic profession. And and   my uh simple analogy is if you give an  aspirin to someone who doesn't have a fever,   you don't expect their body temperature to reduce.

And so if you're doing osteopathic manipulation   on people who don't have somatic dysfunction,  then do you really expect there to be a change.   So that was just you know... Yeah so in this case  you know, do we expect that OMT is going to   allow the balloon of our lungs to expand you  know a bit more and is going to change the forces   of expelling that air when once again their  their their body is is healthy and normal.  uh And so once again that's a recurrent  design issue that I think we need to   screen out with our as we choose future articles  and as we prepare our future research studies   that once again that we are choosing the right  population for the question that we're asking.   And you got an absolutely agree  with you Jane in the Q&A pod there.   um I another one here is... I find it interesting  that smoking wasn't included as an exclusion.   However having been in Poland they might not have  had any participants given how many folks smoke. Another one here... fully concur that the clinical  significance of the hypothesis was in question and   I couldn't answer the question as to why the paper  was important enough to publish. ... Followed up by... OMT   doesn't change us into supermen or women. I think  that was following up on your last comment there.   And I have looks like Dr Brooks  with a hand up here so here we go. I have a couple comments. First of all Brian   thank you for an excellent review  and a great start to this process.   I too was distressed by this paper but I think  perhaps the problem isn't so much that it was   a study that shouldn't have been published  but it should have been so critically reviewed   that the conclusions and the speculations and  the discussion should have been eliminated. In   other words there's probably very little data that  isn't worth reporting. The problem I find is what   people do with the data. And so there might have  been some data that was worthwhile here but it   should have been very very very much more narrowly  interpreted I think.

And so that was one comment.   The other comment is I've been interested in chest  compliance for some time although not I'm not up   to date on the literature. And in the pulmonary  medicine world there's basically the assumption   that the mechanics of chest wall are a fixed  variable... in other words they're not a variable.   And so I I appreciate your slide although it  was non-committal one of your concluding slides...   well it could be mechanical or it could  be pulmonary. And the fact is that when   we breathe it is a both and situation. In  other words you have to have a healthy lung   and a healthy mechanical system. I think it's  an a great opportunity for our profession   to start to raise consciousness about this and  start to tease this out. And even in a setting   like I'm guessing these physical therapists  were uh working in which probably didn't have   you know the kinds of resources that  we would ex we would hope they'd have   for um more sophisticated outcome measures. But  the simple act of of measuring chest expansion   with a cloth measuring tape is a way to start  to discriminate the mechanical properties of   breathing from the total pulmonary function  that's then measured with spirometry. So I know you   are working on much more sophisticated tools at  Kirksville but I think it's something that others   could consider. And is really uh foundational  in addition to all the other critiques you   appropriately offered for us to be able to say  there's actually a biomechanical change or not,   that might then be mechanistically linked  to what actually happens when you breathe.   So those are my two comments. Thank you. Okay we have um one other hand up.  Sergio, I think we got you unmuted there. Sergio, you might unmute yourself. Sorry, yes,  it was the case. Thank you, sorry guys. um I have a few comments.

First um congratulations   Dr Brian Degenhardt for your great presentation  about this uh article. And as I'm I am living   in Europe I know the European uh mentality  from the osteopaths who are studying osteopathy in Europe. Most of them are  physical therapists at a basis.   Some are doctors but most of them are  physical therapists. And they are they are   using only techniques without the background the  scientific background. And they you they think that   if we uh we use a technique we can implement  the system. Because maybe they read some books of   Dr Still. But Dr Still was using that  the osteopathic techniques of on a sick person who has   lung problems and not a person who are healthy.  If you want to to start a discussion about what   are the the osteopathic technique um doing on the  physiology then we need to do it maybe first on   healthy people and then to see if we do it  on on healthy people what can we expect about it. But it's true if we if we do it on healthy  people we have to always to have a comparison and   a control group who says if I don't move this rib and I ask only the patient to  breathe to do a big inspiration   it won't it will fix it fix it on its own. Who knows that if it is the case or not.  That we don't we we when we practice that uh   osteopathic medicine on our patient or manipulative  treatment we know what we want to to reach. But   as Jane said we don't cannot practice osteoporotic  medicine on healthy people without uh somatic   dysfunction. It's like taking an aspirin  for someone who has uh no headache or fever. Okay, thank you... Sorry, um last point. No one no surgeon would  do an operation to see what is it if I do a   surgery on that if uh on that I don't take off an  appendix for someone who has no appendicitis. No me sorry you have understood me you know um  I don't take um surgery for someone who has no   um a bowel problem and abdomen very pain in  the abdomen uh like in appendix.   I don't think I'll take the appendix away because I  want to test surgery about this appendix.

..   about the colon. So um there are some... okay we  have to ask ourself what we want to reach.   uh we need Dr Still did a lot of wonderful  techniques. But they don't they don't have been um   but they have then now they have been improved  during the years. But we don't have search   because only based on the somatic dysfunction  but never on what can cause on the physiology   these manipulative techniques. Thank you. I know it was a lot, sorry. Thank you so much. um I I I'm afraid our  time is up uh for for live discussion but I   I really hope that we are able to to continue  this this discussion about this article on our   uh website forum. uh I I hope to have that open  and ready for discussion this afternoon. So so um   and and I'll just thank Brian for for his  presentation. And uh uh let remind you of our next   uh Let's Talk about Research... OMM Research!  episode which is scheduled for January 15th. And that will be a a director update about  the activities of uh DO-Touch.NET and what   we're doing. uh There will not be continuing  education credits for that session. But back   when we're back in February with our webinar, we  will have that available then. So thank you so much!.